Roundtable: ECW’s Greatest Hits & Misses

Are you a fan of ECW?

David Gibb: When I have no idea what to watch, I tend to put on an old ECW PPV or supershow on the WWE Network. I’m not really a fan of either Hardcore TV’s format or the ECW on TNN show, but nobody in the U.S. put on a big card in the ‘90s like ECW.

Neal Wagner: I can’t say that I’m a fan because I haven’t taken in ECW as much as a wrestling fan should. With the availability of the network, I would like to take it in more.

Matthew Smith: I was a big fan of ECW and loved the way that Heyman took the time to develop wrestlers and found ways to hide their weakness. He brought an entertaining product to us. ECW is what gave us many Hall of Famers ranging from The Dudleyz all the way to Stone Cold Steve Austin. ECW was the product to watch when I was younger – it was edgier and it gave you content you wished WWE would.

Sam Gladen: I am a fan of what it pushed the industry to. I was too young to really pay attention to it when it was in its heyday, and over the years it has been so overblown with hype that when I tried to go back, I just didn’t get it.

Chad Gelfand: I didn’t get to see its original run, but after watching the amazing Rise and Fall of ECW DVD, I’ve gone back and watched a lot of it since then and became a fan of it.

Steven Jackson: I am a fan of ECW, but only parts of ECW. I love the classic wrestling matches and the hybrid hardcore style matches, i.e. RVD vs. Jerry Lynn, but a lot of the hardcore stuff is not my cup of tea. Once you have seen one Tommy Dreamer plunder match, you have seen them all.

John Corrigan: Absolutely. ECW introduced me to pro wrestling. I was watching Street Sharks on Channel 48 and when it ended, Taz gave a gruff promo with a towel over his face, daring me to beat him if I could and challenging me to survive if he’d let me. Then ECW’s opening montage played with a table on fire and I’ve been hooked ever since.

Juan Bautista: Yes. Even though I wasn’t born by the start and too young by the time it ended, I enjoy watching ECW shows. The crowd atmosphere is always great and the roster was very diverse in what it had to offer.

Jack Goodwillie: Yes, but I was wayyy late to the party. All I had known for a long time was the perception WWE put out about ECW, which was that it was all about violent matches and that Paul Heyman ran it. However, I binged a ton of ECW back in 2015 and really got a better sense of why it got so big. It was GOOD; and not just good for its size and resources, but good, period. Watching the sheer amount of it that I did back then really changed my perspective on wrestling as a whole and that it occurred just down the street from where I was watching it (Broad and Washington is just over two miles away from the former ECW Arena!) was an added plus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2tvhlK5oKc

Do you wish it stayed in business or did it reach its peak?

Gibb: ECW had several peaks: its believability peak, its roster peak, its creative peak – and not all of them occurred at the same time. For my money, though, the best of times ended when Raven left in ‘97. After that, the company had to constantly work around roster drain and creative burnout from a booker and crew of main event wrestlers who had already put a lot of themselves into getting the promotion over in its formative years.

Wagner: It reached its peak largely because of today’s society and how networks are cautious with their content. Today, ECW would not be able to get away with the stuff they did back then.

Smith: As much as I want to say yes, it did reach its peak. It is a situation in which very less is more: the wrestlers would have had terribly short careers trying to top each crazy stunt year after year. It was a place where you got on television and made a little name for yourself before jumping to a bigger promotion with a little bit of buzz.

Gladen: I never wish for things to fold and go away, but the fact that it folded when it did definitely adds to the mystique surrounding the promotion.

Gelfand: Paul Heyman is a smart enough guy that he would have tried to evolve ECW and get ahead of trends. The SmackDown that he was in charge of from 2002-2004 was a glimpse into the direction he might have taken ECW in.

Jackson: That’s a really interesting question. Had ECW stayed in business, I highly doubt the world would have got ROH, which Gabe Sapolsky spearheaded. However, with ECW going out of business, it has left a huge void in the industry which many companies have tried to fill. If it was still in business now, ECW would really struggle against some stiff international competition. Of course, ECW achieved everything a major company should look to achieve: a TV deal, regular PPVs and sold out houses. But there was so much more potential there for ECW to evolve. Yet, Paul Heyman and others would have sadly stopped this from happening. ECW reached its logical peak and it is always a great nostalgic trip seeing what it brought in the ‘90s!

Corrigan: Yes, but there is no way it would survive in the modern politically correct age. It was too profane, too raunchy and too Wing Bowlish. (RIP) Plus, the wrestling would be largely scoffed at on social media by the “workrate” crowd.

Bautista: When I hear Paul Heyman talk about the potential direction ECW could have gone, it would have been interesting to see. ECW could have evolved into ICW, which offers extreme matches from a talented roster.

Goodwillie: I do, but if it were to stay in business, you’d have to go back in time and make some sort of tangible change. For it to include Paul Heyman, you’d actually have to go back about a year before it ultimately closed doors because Tommy Dreamer had the book while Paul started taking work in WWE, creating a rift between the two that lasted a few years. Had it continued, Gabe Sapolsky would have ended up with the book, but regardless, you would have seen it transition from its extreme undertones towards a more realistic “fight feel” product. ECW was always nothing but cutting edge, after all.

Who do you consider the company’s MVP?

Gibb: Sabu! Nobody’s in-ring style or dedication to planning an insane character can compare to Sabu’s. He legitimately changed the face of what exciting wrestling looks like, and most of today’s top stars, from Styles to Rollins to Ospreay, would be nothing without him.

Wagner: Tommy Dreamer. Despite whatever happened with the company throughout the years, financially, etc., he never left and went elsewhere. He was very much what Undertaker was to WWF and Sting was to WCW.

Smith: Tommy Dreamer – he is called the heart and soul of ECW for a reason. While you can argue others, Dreamer was always ECW and still is today. If you don’t believe me, listen to any time Dreamer enters a building. The crowd isn’t chanting “Dreamer! Dreamer! Dreamer!” They are screaming “ECDub! ECDub! ECDub!” He carried a banner many others could have, but instead, they jumped ship and went to WWE or WCW. Dreamer went down with the ship, giving us his all in the process.

Gladen: RVD is the obvious choice due to his longevity outside of the company. Sabu, Tommy Dreamer and Sandman were definitely the heart and soul of that company, but the person that I think of when I think ECW is RVD.

Gelfand: Raven. With his emotional feuds with Sandman and Tommy Dreamer, Raven was the villain that ECW needed.

Jackson: ECW’s MVP is a three horse race for me. RVD, Terry Funk and Mikey Whipwreck all have claims. If I had to choose one, I’d actually go with Mikey Whipwreck. He is a guy who came through the ECW system, was the first triple-crown champion and also helped train so many current and future stars from his ECW days that he really is a true success story of ECW!

Corrigan: Sabu was the personification of ECW: high risk, innovative and original.

Bautista: Tommy Dreamer.

Goodwillie: Who is more responsible for the Patriots’ dynasty? Brady or Belichick? You could argue it was Heyman himself. Belichick. The coach (Raven made a similar analogy in his ECW Timeline for Kayfabe Commentaries). He had an ability to take guys like Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten, even Public Enemy, and make them credible names on the card by utilizing strengths and protecting weaknesses. On the other hand, Rob Van Dam, the Brady in this scenario, was the guy the fans saw as ECW’s biggest star and most talented performer. I mean, look no further than his sell on Tommy Dreamer’s piledriver! Insane! There was even a brief time where fans viewed Van Dam as the hottest star in the entire business. But as talented as Rob was, could he have reached his heights without Paul Heyman’s magic? Could Brady have reached his heights without Belichick’s magic? I LOVE Rob Van Dam. My ranking of him reflects that in the The Wrestling Estate’s Top 100 list. But without Paul Heyman and ECW, he certainly wouldn’t have entered WWE on top and would have had a much tougher fight up to the top of the card, as talented as he was.

What current wrestler would have been a natural fit in ECW?

Gibb: Jimmy Havoc seems like a natural choice – he and New Jack might’ve killed each other.

Wagner: Joey Janela. He has good wrestling to him, good promo skills and can get extreme when needed. His style would be a perfect fit.

Smith: Aleister Black. To start with the obvious, his looks would go right along with the hardcore audience. He would have thrived in that hardcore environment, able to use not only his deadly kicks, but an endless amount of weapons to paint his violence with.

Gladen: Samoa Joe. Outside of WWE, Darby Allin and Orange Cassidy would have been massively over in the hardcore promotion that wasn’t afraid to play up the camp.

Gelfand: Drew McIntyre would be a perfect fit. He has a certain intensity about him that even fans of hardcore wrestling would latch onto. Drew could kick ass in a regular match or an Extreme Rules match and ECW fans would like that versatility.

Jackson: Zack Sabre Jr. would be an unbelievable talent in ECW. He could truly bring out his personal beliefs into his gimmick and go all out U.K. Labour Socialist. Can you imagine ZSJ against Lance Storm or ZSJ against Bam Bam Bigelow?! A technical masterclass of the highest degree.

Corrigan: Shinsuke Nakamura. The influx of Japanese wrestlers that came over to the land of extreme was appreciated by the knowledgeable crowd. Look at who he could have faced: RVD, Taz, Sabu, Bam Bam Bigelow, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn, Tajiri…need I say more? Plus, his entrance could have rivaled Sandman’s in length and spectacle.

Bautista: MJF. If you have seen the Dudley Boyz promo from Heatwave 1998, then MJF would need 24/7 security if he could just say what he wanted to.

Goodwillie: CM Punk is obviously the first name that comes to mind for a number of reasons, but he’s out of the business already. A prime Kurt Angle would have eventually given ECW a more formidable mainstream market share (that almost happened!). But today, any wrestler who wants to be taken seriously as a “real” character could fit in ECW. Obviously, Jon Moxley would have been sensational in ECW, but I’ll give you one more name: Dolph Ziggler. Think about how well he would do if his gimmick resembled more of what Chris Candido did. With all due respect to Candido, one of wrestling’s most underrated in-ring competitors, Ziggler could have taken that gimmick to another level.

Why do you think ECW has been more revered (for example, WWE and Impact’s attempts to resurrect its spirit) than other defunct wrestling promotions?

Gibb: The full answer to that question is an entire book that’s yet to be written. In short, ECW created a super passionate base of evangelist fans who were both early adopters of the internet and great marketing representatives for the thing they loved.

Wagner: It had a cult following back then. Today with the network, older fans can rewatch and enjoy and younger fans can discover what ECW was all about.

Smith: Again just because of the cult-like feel, almost every hardcore match is said to have an ECW feel. It’s a testament to the men that gave their bodies to the promotion and the mad man they had running the show.

Gladen: It’s as revered as it is due to when it closed. ECW was at the height of its power. If it had been around long enough to begin to decline, a la WCW, it would be looked back upon with more pity than admiration. Paul Heyman’s continued presence in the wrestling consciousness as the surly genius has also added to the legend surrounding the promotion.

Gelfand: ECW drummed a real grassroots, cult following. The fans are a big part of what made ECW so unique and special. A lot ECW’s hype spread through word of mouth and people really formed an emotional connection to the company.

Jackson: Because of how innovative it was. ECW threw ideas out there and saw if they would work. The company was daring and experimental, and that worked for a long time. ECW had a community atmosphere, which grew across not just the USA, but the world. Every other promotion has been trying to organically produce that kind of following and mindset, but sadly, they have been unable to do so themselves. ECW was a one-off, a time when all the stars aligned and created something truly special. Everyone wants to have that. So learn from ECW, research ECW and love ECW, but you cannot be ECW. Be your own ECW. Carve out your own niche and make a go of it!

Corrigan: It was the underdog. Paul Heyman positioned ECW as the company of the people. As a result, it developed a cult following that will last as long as its fans are alive.

Bautista: ECW was something special. No matter where it went, the crowd atmosphere was electric.

Goodwillie: Because it was GOOD and BOLD. And because of that, it became extremely influential in a number of ways. After watching ECW, I’ve begun to see a little bit of Raven in every polished heel and a little bit of old-school Tommy Dreamer in every polished babyface. ECW was the first promotion to use unlicensed music on its television and it brought the wrestling and music worlds closer together. And beyond all the technicalities of the show, the ECW product had diversity in spades and put names like Rey Mysterio, Lance Storm, Eddie Guerrero, Mike Awesome, Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko on the map for American audiences. ECW’s contributions to wrestling are rich in quality and quantity, and its impact on the industry is still felt to this very day.