Does Heel Heat Exist Without Kayfabe?

In this edition of The Wrestling Estate roundtable, we examine heel heat in a post-kayfabe wrestling world.

Is pelting the ring with trash an embarrassment for the pro wrestling industry?

John Corrigan: Hell no, it’s part of the fun of pro wrestling! Any heel that garners such a reaction is doing their job right. I was at a TNA house show in Philly when Team 3D summoned chairs to be thrown in the ring and while my dad thought it was dangerous, I loved it.

Juan Bautista: Context is needed. I can expect this from a GCW crowd because it comes with the territory. An even more embarrassing incident was Tracy Smothers getting pelted with drinks and objects at an ICP show.

Chad Gelfand: If it’s just paper or something light, I don’t think it’s a huge deal, but once you start throwing half-full cans or heavy objects, it could get dangerous, and that’s not cool.

Steven Jackson: Pelting trash into the ring isn’t an embarrassment to the pro wrestling industry. Is it an outdated reaction? Yes. But it isn’t an embarrassment. If anything (even with “plants” there or not), it sparks a response which is what you want. No reaction at all is the problem.

Jack Goodwillie: No. It was, has and should always be a badge of honor for the recipient wrestler. Is it an embarrassment to the fans on the other end of it? Absolutely! Same thing goes for fans who try to run in during matches. Such an event would mean more today than ever before with kayfabe on wobbly legs.

What do you consider over the line in a promo?

Corrigan: Nothing offends me, but I find promos involving a wrestler’s death to be distasteful. Instead of producing heel heat, they make me tune out.

Bautista: Death is always a touchy subject. Promos like the Bellas’ “in the womb” is always uncomfortable.

Gelfand: Slurs or when Eddie Guerrero’s or Reid Flair’s deaths were brought up in promos. It’s cheap, unnecessary and puts more heat on the company than the performer.

Jackson: Every line has been crossed! However, anything to do with domestic abuse, child abuse or sexual abuse has no need to be in a wrestling promo.

Goodwillie: Not too much, but it depends on what kind of promo it is. It used to be that promos were just interviews, but the modern WWE formula (the same one, by the way, that caused WCW to get washed away in the tide) means face-to-face interactions, both in the ring in front of the fans and backstage in taped segments. So, all of these come in many different shapes and sizes, but as far as live, face-to-face promos go, it benefits the promo to have both sides clued in on the bullet points. After all, this is pro wrestling, not an improv troupe, though having the ability to think on your feet definitely helps. It’s like when you’re filling out a job application and you notice that product knowledge is a plus, but not required. Wait… you’re saying product knowledge actually HURTS your chances of working for WWE?

When’s the last time you got mad at a wrestler?

Corrigan: John Cena tying Ric Flair’s record. And if he beats it, so help me God…

Bautista: Probably Chavo smashing a chair over Rey Mysterio’s head.

Gelfand: Triple H during the Authority era, but that was mainly because I was sick of that storyline dragging on for years despite multiple opportunities to end it. The worst being Triple H beating Sting in his one and only WrestleMania match.

Jackson: I rarely get mad at wrestlers. I get mad when they put themselves or their opponents in danger. Looking at it though, the whole #SpeakingOut movement and especially David Starr made me incredibly angry. But I don’t want to go into that again as he doesn’t deserve the time.

Goodwillie: Last week, usually for dumb, illogical stuff that you just know in the back of your head came from the wrestlers themselves and not the agents/writers/producers. For example, I get mad at wrestlers like Jordynne Grace and Orange Cassidy all the time for various things. Doesn’t mean I don’t think they’re very talented. If a wrestler gets enough heel heat in the ring to the point that it would normally make me mad, nowadays I just smile because that should be the norm and much closer to the expectation than it has become.

As far as heels that grind my gears? I definitely don’t find MJF as talented of a heel as people say. He often comes off more like a cartoon villain than a real-life heel that I could actually get mad at. He’s been involved in two storylines that started out absolutely whacky (Cody, then Jericho) before bringing it back to a more serious tone both times, but both times he’s also put forth a series of obstacles in front of both guys that they must clear before getting to him. That type of thing hadn’t been done too much in recent pro wrestling prior to MJF, and the motif is almost biblical in a way, but when it’s applied in back-to-back programs, both the storylines and MJF himself begin to feel a little derivative and not all they’re cracked up to be.

Nowadays, there are several talents who make natural heels, but haven’t quite honed in on what it means to be a good heel. Wrestlers like, say, Baron Corbin, Charlotte, Cody, and here’s another name, Kona Reeves, all make for natural heels, be it because of their look, natural personality or disposition, but I’ve still yet to see any of them really hit a heel flowstate in the way that say, someone like Tommaso Ciampa did. I will say The Miz has gotten me good on several occasions. For some reason, when he got fired from Raw and came back as “The Calgary Kid” to steal a Raw contract from Eugene and ripped off the mask, I did get a little testy on the other side of the television. Likewise, his Talking Smack promo left me at a total loss for words.

Who is the top heel in wrestling today?

Corrigan: Richard Holliday. Have you ever heard anyone compliment him? Sure, he’s similar to MJF, but half of Twitter praises MJF. Same for Reigns. Meanwhile, everybody boos when Holliday comes out and speaks of “rarified air.”

Bautista: Matt Cardona. He defines a WWE wrestler, but he’s walked into unknown territory and is now the champion.

Gelfand: Roman Reigns. He’s done a great job of having his character come off as a final boss type while being detestable at the same time. The best heels are ones where you believe they can win without cheating, but they do anyway just to take the easy way out.

Jackson: Rickey Shane Page! I know MJF is a great heel, but I’m more into RSP. His swagger, his in-ring work and his promos create molten heel heat. He is so, so good!

Goodwillie: It’s Roman Reigns. As good of a television heel as he has been, I thought for sure the fans would cheer him when he came back, but he has managed to keep the heel heat we perceived him to have all along. You could argue Reigns was the top heel in wrestling before even turning heel, but this is all him right now and the work he’s put in to becoming a better promo and on-screen performer in segments really shows in anything he’s done since returning. Funny to think he may only now just be hitting his stride…