Bashing Vince McMahon’s NXT

In this edition of The Wrestling Estate roundtable, we reflect on Triple H’s performance as head of NXT and the changes that Vince McMahon is implementing.

With Vince McMahon reportedly redesigning NXT, do you consider Triple H’s run a failure?

Chad Gelfand: As a standalone show, NXT was successful. It provided entertaining programming for several years. However, as a developmental system, it can be considered somewhat of a failure due to the millions of dollars that have been pumped into the Performance Center and NXT compared to the number of stars that have emerged from there. This is not all Triple H’s fault, but what NXT has been doing and what the decision-makers on the main roster want are clearly two different things.

Steven Jackson: I don’t see HHH’s run a failure in the slightest. This is a case of an individual not seeing what the fans actually want rather than supposedly “what the fans want.” The failure is that Vince McMahon wants to have an in-house developmental brand, but NXT is a strong brand on its own and what everyone wants to watch.

Juan Bautista: Yes. OVW contributed talent that would define a generation. NXT has not done the same. Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens, Adam Cole and several others were already stars. Yes, you can bring up the women’s division, but a few women would’ve developed into stars either way.

John Corrigan: No. Triple H did a tremendous job cultivating a new product, but when NXT changed its style to go head to head with AEW, that was certainly a failure.

Jack Goodwillie: Not at all. Triple H’s NXT, in many ways, can be looked at as a precursor to AEW, and for about a five-year stretch this was the best version of professional wrestling on the planet. Not only was Triple H’s NXT successful in developing stars, it was also successful in taking already established stars and reinventing them, making them an even bigger deal in the eyes of wrestling fans. The matches were critically acclaimed, the roster had variety and Takeovers did big business at the gate. In no universe was NXT a failure, except maybe in the WWE Universe.

Of the released NXT talent, who was the biggest headscratcher?

Gelfand: Bronson Reed. He’s an agile, big man who can work that was North American Champion and main eventing NXT a few weeks ago. It’s crazy that WWE would just let someone like that go.

Jackson: Where do you start!? So many head scratching releases. Of them though, Bronson Reed aka Jonah Rock is the one that really got to me. He has everything Vince wants in a big man, and he’s Australian so can bring in more of the Oceanic market. Yet, he was released…headscratch.

Bautista: Bobby Fish because of his role in the Undisputed Era and the possible further involvement.

Corrigan: August Grey aka Anthony Greene. I didn’t think his “Uncle Jesse of Professional Wrestling” gimmick would translate in WWE, but he certainly belongs on the roster. Oh well, WWE’s loss is the indies’ gain.

Goodwillie: Bobby Fish. Bronson Reed, too, in terms of talent, but his self-righteous Twitter presence was grating to put it mildly. Bobby Fish could have had a bright future within the company long after his time in the ring was up, and he’s still not really showing signs of slowing down, even with the Undisputed Era “era” having run its course.

Should 30 years old be the cutoff for entering developmental?

Gelfand: I don’t think that should be the hard line, but if a wrestler is in their 30s and has been on TV elsewhere or been a prominent person on the indies, then I don’t think they need to spend much time, if any, in developmental. Someone like Bobby Roode probably should have gone straight to the main roster.

Jackson: The whole age thing is ludicrous and again views NXT as a developmental brand rather than as a brand of its own.

Bautista: No, there would have been no NXT then. Nakamura, Joe and Balor were already in their 30s.

Corrigan: No because these days WWE Superstars don’t hit the main event until their 40s.

Goodwillie: No. Everybody matures differently and not everybody’s journey to the top is going to be the same. Not everybody’s learning curve is going to be the same either. Say someone joins the business at 32 years old and takes to wrestling like a duck to water. Guess what? He or she can STILL have at least seven years to get to the top of the mountain and possibly more. Chris Jericho is 50 and still wrestling.

Well? Not necessarily, but he’s also been at it for more than 30 years and can still be entertaining. AJ Styles is going to wrestle well into his 40s and CM Punk and Daniel Bryan may have their best money years ahead of them at 42 and 40, respectively. DDP is obviously more of an outlier than the norm, but if someone has the talent and drive to get into wrestling late in the game, who is anyone to stop them?

Does a wrestler’s height matter to you?

Gelfand: Not particularly, depending on what they’re doing. Guys like Adam Cole and Kevin Owens aren’t that tall, but they carry themselves like they are, and it makes a world of difference. Presentation and charisma matter more than height.

Jackson: Not at all. Why should it matter how tall someone is? It’s what they can do between the ropes and on the mic that matters.

Bautista: It all matters in the match and context. Rey Mysterio vs. Adam Cole, I can get into that, but at times things can get far-fetched.

Corrigan: Giants are still attractions. For example, Big Vin certainly stood out during the scramble at Hybrid Wrestling “Off to the Races,” and he’s a guy I’m immediately invested in going forward. At the same time, Ric Flair is the G.O.A.T. and he’s barely 6’0.

Goodwillie: Yes and no. Eddie Guerrero being my favorite wrestler, and Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels being at the top of most G.O.A.T. lists you’ll find, it may seem odd that it would matter at all, but it does. However, it comes in last to basically every other intangible a wrestler can have: athleticism, charisma, poise, creativity and drive. You can’t teach any of those things. You also can’t teach height (hey Big Cass, how ya doin), but if you took all five of those other attributes away and were left with height, you would have a bad pro wrestler.

I don’t think that’s a difficult concept to grasp, but guys like Vince McMahon, John Laurinaitis and Bruce Prichard STILL after all these years can’t seem to do that. Hangman Page is a star. He could be an even bigger star if he was, say, Drew McIntyre’s size. But he carries himself like he is and you almost have to do a double-take when you realize he’s (only) six-foot. But Conor McGregor, a 145-pounder, became hands down the UFC’s biggest draw and will continue to be for as long as he wants. That’s as much proof as you need that height CAN matter, but is completely meaningless when juxtaposed with other core attributes.

Do you still watch NXT on a regular basis?

Gelfand: I’m still watching regularly, but I’m finding myself being more and more checked out. It’s hard to get invested in these characters when it feels like any of them could be released at a moment’s notice, and none of what they accomplish in NXT will matter once they get to the main roster.

Jackson: I don’t watch NXT regularly, but I do catch highlights and particular matches. Whether I do when Vinnie Mac has his way is another story!

Bautista: No because it’s not the same NXT that made me enjoy the product. NXT 25 was the last show from that era of NXT. Now it’s under the same format as Raw and SmackDown and it’s not a good product.

Corrigan: I’ve never watched NXT on a regular basis. Hell, I haven’t even seen all the TakeOvers.

Goodwillie: No, and now I am done. I will flip it on when I can, but the latest report out of Dave Meltzer and the Wrestling Observer Newsletter was… damning to me. And as a fan of WWE for going on 17 years, I’m ashamed that it’s come to this considering the success sub-6’5″ wrestlers have had over the years. Peacock’s sheer and utter incompetence has played a role as well.