John Lister Talks ‘World Of Sport’
His new book includes more than 50 profiles of Britain’s biggest wrestling stars.
The United Kingdom wrestling scene has gone through a renaissance in recent years, with WWE getting in on the action by launching its NXT UK division and streaming shows on WWE Network. It’s a great view into the current landscape across the pond, showcasing its brightest stars while paying homage to its rich past, notably World of Sport. If you’re a fan of the U.K. wrestling scene, consider WWE’s presentation to be simply whetting your appetite.
“Have A Good Week… Till Next Week” examines the history of British wrestling. For six years, the stars of the World of Sport – many speaking candidly for the first time – told their stories to Fighting Spirit Magazine’s John Lister. Now those stories are packaged together for the first time in Lister’s new book, which is available on Amazon in both print and Kindle editions.
The tome contains articles on wrestling at the Royal Albert Hall and Wembley Arena, the FA Cup Final special shows, wrestling in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the pre-TV era and the most in-depth and revealing history of Joint Promotions, the British equivalent to the NWA. Plus, there are profiles of more than 50 grapplers, from Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks to William Regal and the British Bulldogs.
If you’ve read Lister’s previous work, such as “Purodyssey: A Tokyo Wrestling Diary,” you’ll know he’s a student of the game who masterfully educates and entertains in compelling prose.
You can order “Have A Good Week… Till Next Week” on US Amazon here and UK Amazon here.
For more information, visit www.johnlisterwriting.com. For the closest thing you’ll get to a World of Sport equivalent to WWE Network, check out www.itvwrestling.co.uk.
The following are excerpts from Lister’s appearance on Corrigan’s Corner on Team LeftJab. They’ve been edited and condensed for your reading pleasure.
Why did the original series in Fighting Spirit Magazine come to an end?
John Lister: “We came to the natural end of the series. I interviewed most of the leading names, and it was getting to the point where lots of the guys had already passed away. There were still some people who didn’t want to talk openly about the old British scene because they’re still very much clinging on to the kayfabe of the era. The series ran about six years because there is a lot of interest in that ‘World of Sport’ era.”
Did you have trouble getting some of these old-timers to open up?
Lister: “It was less trouble than I expected. You interviewed somebody before, who they were close friends with, and they’d sort of vouch for you speaking respectfully. Or I’d ease into the questions, starting out by asking how they got into wrestling. Test the waters, so to speak. ‘When did you start getting comfortable in the ring?’ The answer to that would often give you insight as to how open they would be, whether they said somebody helping within a match, giving them offense in a match or more of them saying ‘I won my matches because I had gotten really good at wrestling.’
They hadn’t talked about wrestling for so long, or they never had this opportunity to talk about the behind the scenes aspect. You’d get guys who would be used in enhancement roles on television, who never had people respect them. They liked the opportunity to talk about their craft rather than people asking how come you used to lose all the time.”
Former wrestlers talking about the old days has become almost passé in the US. Do shoot interviews not exist in the UK?
Lister: “Not really to the same extent. There wasn’t the same worldwide appeal as many of the guys in the States. There was still a little bit of resentment that they haven’t been as remembered as the American wrestlers. It was off television for more than 30 years. Literally, a whole generation has grown up not really knowing the history of British wrestling unless you had the chance to see old videos or Youtube or more recently, the Wrestling Channel on satellite television, which was one of the most popular things we’ve ever had on television. You could show it for hours on end without the audience dipping. Older people home during the daytime remembered this from their youth and got caught up in it again, seeing these matches for the first time in 40 years.”
Why did British wrestling go off the air?
Lister: “Wrestling on ITV was traditionally shown on Saturday afternoons and ran for 33 years. ‘World of Sport’ was the name of the program. It was part of a magazine show that was equivalent to ABC’s ‘Wide World of Sports.’ It featured snooker, darts, horse racing, more niche sports. About 7-8 million people watched at its peak, something like 20% of the population at the time. It was really part of the culture. If people didn’t watch, they were still aware of the biggest name wrestlers. It dipped in popularity in the mid-1970s largely due to featuring the same stars on top over and over again.
For a brief time, there was a shift in management that pushed new guys, which didn’t do as well because people didn’t recognize them. Then there was Big Daddy, the brother of one of the promoters and he became a top star. To an extent, it had never been done before because there were so many shows running every night all around the country, you needed dozens of main eventers that could cover the whole country. Big Daddy took the Hulk Hogan concept that this is absolutely the dominant star that appeals to the casual fan. He boosted crowds, but at the same time, he couldn’t appear everywhere across the country.
‘World of Sport’ was finally taken off air in 1985, replaced with films and movies. Wrestling was a standalone show until the end of 1988, partly because ratings were about half of what they were at their peak. That was partly because a loss of popularity, partly due to the show airing at a different time every week. The new head of ITV changed strategy. Instead of going after the largest possible audience and sending advertisers that way, he put emphasis on demographics, trying to get more middle class, high-earning people who wanted more prestigious advertisers. He didn’t see wrestling as part of that package.
In the long run, that really hurt wrestling. There were a couple years of strong business after that because fans missed their TV wrestling and had to go to live venues. But the short-term boost dropped off into the ‘90s because these people weren’t TV stars anymore and WWF were the big TV stars to a new generation of children.”
It sounds like a similar situation as the demise of WCW. Sure, ratings had dwindled, but it all came down to a TV executive deciding to pull the plug.
Lister: “Unlike the American territories, it wasn’t the promotion itself filming and editing the tape and giving it to a TV station. It was actually ITV’s sports department filming it and broadcasting in the same way it would any other sporting event. You still had to maintain this illusion that it was a genuine sport. It had to be plausible, as one wrestler describes it to the commentator that was actually hired by ITV. Kent Walton covered it very straight and very low key as well. He wouldn’t get outraged when people were cheating in a match, he would get disappointed. It was kind of a cross between Gordon Solie and Lance Russell really.
The beauty of wrestling is that it can be so many different things. It can be sportslike, entertainment, punk rock, comedy. That was part of the appeal of the old British wrestling. Although there’s this idea that the British wrestling style is mat-based, chain-wrestling, you had such a wide variety. Comedy wrestlers like Catweasle that would do physical comedy in their matches based around wrestling. Heavyweights doing high-impact stuff, high-flying guys like Mark Rocco and Marty Jones. It was a real variety show. There would often be one match on each showed played completely straight, with both participants following the rules. Now you know to get upset in the next match where people will be cheating.”
Would you consider Big Daddy to be the biggest star of the U.K. wrestling scene?
Lister: “Certainly in terms of mainstream recognition for anybody who was a young adult from 1970 onwards. Only real competitors would be Mick McManus and Jackie Pallo, who were big stars in the ‘60s and early ‘70s. Despite all the successes of the Big Daddy era, the real peak of British business was the mid-1960s, when they were running 15 shows a night from Joint Promotions. Wrestling was part of the culture and weekly in most cities and towns across the country. Because there were only two or three channels, it was part of mainstream culture where everybody was aware of it.”
When I was reading the book, I was fascinated to see names like Blackjack Mulligan and Greg Valentine, who I had no idea had competed in the U.K. Then I read further and realized these weren’t the same people I’m familiar with.
Lister: (laughs) “We tried to trace the original source of lots of names. There were all sorts of British wrestlers who took a name, usually given to them by promoters. These weren’t meant to be a rip-off, as happened with tribute wrestling, which was a big thing in the ‘90s and early 2000s where you’d have British wrestlers take on the personas of WWF guys. Promoters would try to say it was like a tribute to a famous band, which is not an argument that WWE’s lawyers really went for. But these guys were in the TV era and fans hadn’t heard of most of these names before.
Because ITV was producing it themselves, they obviously didn’t have the interest in the same way an American territory’s TV show would have. The names on the poster were a big part of drawing you in. The TV shows weren’t used to draw people into the shows because there was always wrestling within a short bus ride or even walking distance from where you lived. That’s how lineups of each show were advertised around the town.”
Who were some of your favorite interviews from the World of Sport era?
Lister: “Two stand out. If the wrestler was still alive, we’d interview them and talk at length about their career. If they had passed away, we’d talk with wrestlers who worked with them, friends that had great stories or in a few cases, we talked to surviving family members. We talked to the son of Giant Haystacks and the daughter of Catweasel. Giant Haystacks was billed about 7 foot tall, the villain equivalent of Big Daddy. His son talked about the logistics of going through cars so often and breaking the springs and what they actually ate during Sunday dinner.
My favorite of guys who passed away is Billy Robinson because of his amazing, wide-ranging influence on the business, covering everything from Undertaker having the tombstone as a finisher to the 1930s when the Snake Pit was the training grounds. It was this ramshackle shed where people did catch wrestling, which is basically pro wrestling rules, but fighting for real. It’s unlike Pancrase or UFC because you’re mixing in going for a pinfall and going for a submission. It sounds completely contradictory, but if you went for a pinfall, you held somebody down. Instead of the dramatic kickout with your legs, you have to bridge out a bit on your neck, which leaves your arms open for a sumission hold.
Robinson’s influence goes right through to training seminars for Jack Gallagher and Brian Danielson. It’s amazing to have this one guy whose legacy covers the U.K., U.S. and Japan, from the 1930s to Daniel Bryan being world champion at WrestleMania.
In terms of ‘World of Sport’ guys I spoke to, by far the most entertaining was Dave Taylor. Any name you give him, he has a story. I spoke to him for an hour and 40 minutes – it could have been a 10-page book. We did six pages about him, and turned the rest into a training advice column for new wrestlers.”
You can listen to the full interview at Team LeftJab.
About Author
