Happy Birthday, Vince McMahon

When all is said and done, was Vince McMahon a benefit or a detriment to pro wrestling?

Steven Jackson: I think everyone will agree that Vince McMahon has been and remains a benefit to the pro wrestling industry. Vince re-imagined the industry for a mass audience and we wouldn’t be talking about any pro wrestling without him and his contributions.

Juan Bautista: Vince McMahon is the atomic bomb of pro wrestling. Expanding WWE nationally had both long term and short effects. It paved the way for WrestleMania to take place, but destroyed the territory system. WWE no longer had the feeder system of wrestlers leaving territories and going somewhere else. During the Monday Night Wars, the ratings were off the charts, but it overexposed the product. People expected the same level of product to continue, and when they didn’t get it, they tuned out. That’s why the ratings are in the state they are today.

Calvin Gibbon: Absolutely, I think he was a benefit to professional wrestling. Whether you think Vince is ultimately a good person is certainly up for debate, but his decisions with regards to the direction of WWE has kept up with a world that is bustling with new competition. WWE has become like Disney: it is the place everyone wants to be and the sport would disappear in its absence.

Chad Gelfand: Vince McMahon has made some decisions that can definitely be seen as detrimental to the overall health of pro wrestling with his destruction of the territories and basically becoming a monopoly. However, McMahon is also responsible for growing WWE into the billion-dollar powerhouse that it is today, even if it was at the expense of other promotions. So, it’s complicated, but he’s undoubtedly had a positive impact overall.

Jenna Leigh: Is he a benefit or detriment to wrestling? Without hesitation, he is a BENEFIT. While he has made more than his fair share of questionable (or flat out bad) decisions, his impact on professional wrestling in North America is positively undeniable. His vision of a global enterprise elevated the industry from being a small town, regional business… and created what could essentially be argued as a monopoly. Regardless, he has a degree of fearlessness that made him capable of taking enormous risks like upending the entire territorial system, banking everything he has on super shows and celebrity involvement. In 2018, WWE is rarely called “wrestling”. It is, however, called “sports entertainment” – another of McMahon’s creations. When you can completely alter the composition of, the functions of, the public’s opinions of and even the name of an entire industry, you’re not only a benefit to said industry; you are its patron saint.

John Corrigan: If I was a random wrestler in the territories, a promoter, a minority or a woman, I’d say Vince has been a detriment. But I’m the stereotypical white guy wrestling fan who has enjoyed WWE for 18 years, so thanks Vinnie Mac!

David Gibb: This question is tough to answer because it’s pretty much impossible to imagine wrestling in 2018 without the influence of Vincent K. McMahon. With that said, I think it’s undeniably true that Vince McMahon created the situation whereby it’s possible (even easy) to have a national/international discussion about wrestling where everybody defines the terms approximately the same way and has approximately the same reference points. On the other hand, from a labor relations point of view, I think McMahon has done a lot to foster dependency and keep the whole industry job scared, which is undeniably crummy.

Jack Goodwillie: Clearly a benefit. I will use every inch I have in this roundtable to criticize McMahon for everything he’s done this past decade, but at the end of the day, he made wrestling “cool” on a mainstream level. Then he had the foresight to reinvent his product when business and TV ratings took a nose dive. Now sure, any idiot could have seen that change was needed after the goofiness of the ‘80s really started to carry over into the early-mid ‘90s, but when you’re the captain of a ship like WWE, you’re going to get a lot of credit and you’re going to get a lot of criticism. It comes with the job. But Vince’s ideas made wrestling more popular, plus he, along with Eric Bischoff are the only promoters to become the top heels of their respective shows. However, McMahon took it a step further, wrestling big (and even critically acclaimed matches) against some of the biggest names of the ‘90s and millennium. There’s a lot of respect to be found in a man who won’t ask anything of anyone he won’t do himself. It goes beyond being a man, really. That’s the type of quality that makes a leader.

What was his biggest mistake?

Jackson: I think everyone will also agree that Vince has made some bad mistakes in his life. We can all criticize the way he has dealt with pro wrestling deaths, the XFL, the WBF and steroid scandals, but his biggest mistake is/was trying to branch out into the entertainment industry. Vince is a pro wrestling promoter – the ultimate pro wrestling promoter. He isn’t a movie producer or acting agent or anything in between. Anything to do with WWE Films (apart from pro wrestling documentaries) has always made me cringe and feel embarrassed, quite honestly.

Bautista: Vince’s biggest mistake was not accepting healthy competition. Weather it was threatening cable companies not to carry Starrcade or risk losing WrestleMania or even recently, where he was unsuccessful in forcing New Japan and Ring of Honor out of Madison Square Garden. He’s never been able to accept a healthy challenge. Even during the Monday Night Wars, his intention was to put WCW out of business. Vince hasn’t learned that he can’t control everything, which is evident now that members of the NXT U.K. roster can’t perform for any other promotion seven days before taking.

Gibbon: I’m a big believer that he didn’t need to do the Montreal Screwjob. Hindsight is 20/20, but Bret was trustworthy so you could have allowed him to leave on his own terms. There were also no plans to bring Bret over right away by WCW. At the end of the day, however, the most controversial night in WWE history turned out to be the greatest inadvertent heel turn ever.

Gelfand: Vince should have bought the NWO and Goldberg out of their contracts for the Invasion storyline. It’s hard to do a compelling invasion when some of the biggest stars from WCW are missing. This was the final nail in the coffin of the Attitude Era and led to a decrease in wrestling’s popularity.

Leigh: Vince McMahon’s biggest mistake is not one solitary poor decision. Rather, it is an ongoing behavior that he has ingrained in the minds of Stephanie, Shane and HHH that is detrimental to WWE and the industry as a whole. Vince and his “creative” team have a massive aversion to elevating and pushing stars that they did not create. There are obvious exclusions like AJ Styles and Samoa Joe, but there have been countless other people who drew fantastic crowd reactions and clearly had fantastic in ring abilities, but for whatever reason (wink wink) they were never given the opportunity to show what they could do. Dallas Page, Emma, Sean O’Haire, Matt Striker…. the list is lengthy, and often shares overlap with another long list: People for whom WWE Dropped the Ball. But alas, that is a discussion for another day!

Corrigan: The conspiracy theorist in me wishes Vince McMahon didn’t help cover up the murder of Jimmy Snuka’s girlfriend. Obviously I can’t prove that, so I’ll go with Vince never reconciling with Randy Savage and refusing to bring him back for the Hall of Fame, random appearances, etc.

Gibb: From a creative/wrestling standpoint, not getting Hogan and Bret in the ring with Bret winning clean in the middle. From a real-world/human being standpoint, the treatment of women on television.

Goodwillie: I could make a list and come up with 50 things Vince has greenlit since 2008-09 that he not only probably shouldn’t have greenlit, but probably should have done the exact, reverse opposite of. To name a few: the handling of Roman Reigns, Dolph Ziggler, Becky Lynch, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, The Undertaker, CM Punk, Roman Reigns, the women’s revolution, overexposing his daughter, The Ascension, Roman Reigns….the list goes on and on and I can be here for a while just rattling off critical errors that held his product back rather than moving it two steps forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m0Oe_37QlA

What is your favorite Vince McMahon match?

Jackson: My favorite Vince McMahon match is a difficult question as I have never really enjoyed any of his matches. Probably because of the storyline coming full-circle it would have to be his match against his son Shane McMahon at WrestleMania X-Seven. Pure Attitude Era goodness!

Bautista: The five-star classic when he tagged with Shane to take on Shawn Michaels and God. Just kidding, it’s Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania XIX. It was a scrappy, good old, down and dirty brawl. It also featured a cameo from the late, great “Rowdy” Roddy Piper.

Gibbon: Oh it’s Vince McMahon vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 22 and it’s not even close. The buildup was excellent, and the setting was perfect. Jim Ross gave his best one-sided commentary ever. This was an incredibly fun match where Mr. McMahon was truly a super villain.

Gelfand: The McMahon/Hogan match at WrestleMania XIX is insane because it’s two old dudes beating the crap out of each other and Vince did a damn leg drop off of a ladder onto Hogan. The man’s out of his mind!

Leigh: I went back and forth on this one. I know a lot of people will say versus Stone Cold at St. Valentine’s Day Massacre. For me, his best match was against Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania XIX, for numerous reasons. This match was a battle of the pillars of the wrestling industry…a true “who made who?'(whom?) battle. Vince, battling what he considered one of his greatest creations, center stage at yet another of his biggest creations. And battle they did. Blood was shed, as well as anger and resentment and borderline hatred, as the reasons for this bout became more numerous the longer you thought about it. The company owner who’s trophy employee testified against him in the trial of his life; the first modern “superstar” of the company trying to come to grips with time and its effects while feeling pushed aside for a so called “new generation.” This match was a masterpiece of kayfabe and real world tensions coming to a head, and it was some of VKM’s very best work. That crazed, bloodied face? You know what I’m talking about.

Corrigan: The street fight with Shane O’Mac at WrestleMania X-7. There were payoffs to several storylines in just one match, and they all featured Vinnie Mac getting his comeuppance.

Gibb: I don’t care to watch McMahons wrestle, but I guess that one where he peered evilly over the ring apron all covered in blood was pretty sweet.

Goodwillie: Unquestionably, Vince vs. Hogan at WrestleMania XIX. It’s the second greatest Vince feud after the Austin ordeal, but the match is a favorite of mine. Vince holds his own and holds nothing back in giving the fans what they want here. As for the match itself, he has two money spots: peering out from under the apron with a steel pipe wearing the crimson mask like he’s Jack Torrance is one of wrestling’s greatest images, and then stealing Hogan’s ear taunt before hitting a leg drop from the top of a ladder through the announce table is, HOLY SH*T level stuff.

What is your favorite Vince McMahon moment?

Jackson: My favorite Vince McMahon moment is so brief it probably will be overlooked by many, but still really touching. After Eddie Guerrero won the WWE Championship from Brock Lesnar at No Way Out 2004, the cameras followed him into the back and in a rare moment, Vince broke character and embraced Eddie. It was extremely short, but very profound to see Vince react as he did, and shows just how much respect he had for Eddie.

Bautista: The limo explosion, but since there was no pay off…Kevin Owens beating Vince to a pulp. It was what anybody would want to do to Vince McMahon. It fit the story of Kevin being frustrated with management, so he took it out on the owner.

Gibbon: It would have to be the performance he gave on Vince McMahon Appreciation Night. After essentially being roasted by ex-employees, friends and celebrity guests, McMahon gave a chilling performance that would stick with you days later. The exploding limo was an incredible payoff, but due to unpredictable circumstances, it now goes down as one of the biggest “what if” scenarios ever.

Gelfand: I loved the moment in the McMahon/Hogan WrestleMania XIX match where a bloodied McMahon peers over the ring apron and has the most devious smile on his face. That image is the perfect summation of the Mr. McMahon character.

Leigh: My all-time favorite Vinnie Mac moment is a classic from the Attitude Era. He was laid up in a hospital bed, and he knew that Stone Cold was somewhere in that hospital, lurking, hiding…WAITING. Because of this, Vince could NOT rest. Naturally, Mick Foley, the beacon of sunshine and positivity, took it upon himself to cheer his boss up. Along for the incredibly awkward ride is Yurple The Clown (“She does this trick with a dog you’re really gonna like!”) Vince clearly does not want any company whatsoever, and Mick and Yurple are not getting that, continuing to sing, make balloon animals and be ridiculously silly until finally Vince grunts out an angry “Dammit, leave!’ Something about the way he just grunts it out like a petulant child slays me every time.

Corrigan: Stand Back!

Gibb: “It’s me, Austin!” (I imagine Vince McMahon is that pleased with himself all the time and just lives in Bond-Villain-Explaining-the-Plan world 24/7.)

Goodwillie: Selfishly, it’s Doo-Rag Vince. Vince McMahon got his head shaved by Donald Trump, and while that was a great moment in and of itself, Vince goes on to make HIMSELF the ECW Champion all while donning Gucci Du-Rags to match his suits. It’s a hilarious look that sort of reinforced the idea that Vince has a tiny head, at least compared to the rest of his body. Kind of reminded me of a Koopa from the disastrous Mario Bros. movie.

What would you like to see happen to WWE when he dies?

Jackson: When Vince dies, I would firstly like to see his contributions celebrated. Then I would like to see the WWE stop being so insular and embrace the industry as a whole, rather than in its current elitist way. It may never happen, but I hope it will.

Bautista: I would like to see someone other than a member of the family get control of the company, so they wouldn’t have any obligation to anybody. There would be changes: maybe Kevin Dunn would be gone, Shane and Stephanie would be off TV and maybe, just maybe, we can get back to good wrestling. I don’t know if it’s a solo owner or maybe a joint effort. Whatever happens, it can’t get worse then it is right now, so hopefully, there would be improvement.

Gibbon: I would like to see it continue on successfully in Triple H and Stephanie’s hands. It should remain a family business at its core. I hope to watch WrestleMania every year with friends and family until I’m old and gray. Just like Disney, hopefully it will last long after we are gone.

Gelfand: I hope we don’t have to think about this anytime soon, but I think that WWE will be in good hands with Triple H, if how he’s been running NXT is any indication.

Leigh: When the day comes that Vincent Kennedy McMahon passes away, I would like to see HHH, Stephanie and Shane booking and running the Raw and SmackDown rosters the way the NXT roster is run. I want that cohesive booking and storytelling. I want to see everyone given a moment. I am well aware that not everyone can be pushed at the same time, but the rosters are loaded with pure talent who could take the tiniest scrap of material and airtime, and make something of it. While no wrestling company should only do “as their fans say,” NXT is proof that HHH knows how to listen to what his audience wants and keep them coming back for more; while at the same time mixing some twists, turn and surprises in with their top notch product.

Corrigan: I’m not hoodwinked by Triple H’s booking prowess, so I’d rather Vince be coughing up phlegm on his death bed, having a “come to Jesus” moment and just saying “fuck it, let Heyman take over.”

Gibb: When his will is ultimately read, it will be revealed that he divided his stock in such a way that Stephanie and Shane are 50-50 partners, making the next 30 years of WWE TV about working all that out.

Goodwillie: The company is so regimented at this point that it’ll be next man up, although Vince’s job will likely be split five or six ways. The amount of work he shoulders is insane, yet plausible, given how little he sleeps at night. Dana White is cut from that same cloth. Creatively, Paul Levesque has built quite a resume for himself with developmental and the genius of it is that Full Sail has become a breeding ground in and of itself for the WWE production stars of tomorrow, meaning Kevin Dunn’s days will be numbered once Vince isn’t around to pamper him anymore. Out with the old, in with the new. It’s the way of the world. Though I have to think once Vince’s involvement with the XFL begins to ramp up, we’ll get a glimpse at as to what the future just might hold.