Lavie Margolin Talks 2020 Election, TrumpMania
TrumpMania: 2020 Election Special Edition is available now.
TrumpMania: 2020 Election Special Edition is the definitive history between President Trump and his real-life friend, on-screen rival and fellow mogul: Vince McMahon. Covering their relationship from the late 1980s to 2020, TrumpMania focuses on not only pro wrestling’s influence on the Commander-in-Chief, but also Trump’s overwhelmingly positive effect on WWE. The book also delves into Linda McMahon and Jesse Ventura, a couple of fellow political outsiders who have contributed to Trump’s rise to the presidency.
TrumpMania: 2020 Election Special Edition is authored by Lavie Margolin, a contributor to various wrestling websites, such as PW Ponderings and ROH World. He also wrote “TrumpMania: Vince McMahon, WWE and the making of America’s 45th President”. You can check out that review here.
Ahead of Election Day, Margolin spoke with The Wrestling Estate about Trump’s first term, pro wrestling during the pandemic and the wrestling community on Twitter. You can listen to the full interview here.
TrumpMania: 2020 Election Special Edition is available on Amazon.
My copy has arrived! Tried to shower myself in the remaining WWE confetti. pic.twitter.com/M1JdPZiSX6
— Lavie Margolin (@Laviemarg) September 25, 2020
Do you consider Donald Trump to be the worst president in your lifetime?
Lavie Margolin: “Oh yes, by far. We’ve seen that people were put in place in different administrative positions to disrupt or destroy those organizations. You put somebody in charge of the EPA that has been fighting against environmental regulations their whole life. I made the bad joke when this first started happening that if there’s supposed protection of circus animals organization, you’d probably see the former CEO of Ringling Brothers in there.”
Has President Trump done worse than you expected when he first entered office?
Lavie Margolin: “In some ways, certain structures or norms have gone away that oftentimes you’d think okay, he’s finally done it now. You can’t go beyond this point. The Senate can’t stand for this. And then he goes beyond that. Many of us had extreme thoughts when he was elected of terrible governments of the past outside the U.S. Thankfully, it hasn’t been like that.”
Do you predict that President Trump will get a second term?
Lavie Margolin: “He might figure out a way to remain. There’s a lot of confusion and disruption now. I think the popular vote will go to Joe Biden. Stephanie McMahon mentioned something about a ‘peaceful transition of power’ when he was first elected, and I thought that was curious because who was talking about that? But now it’s becoming an issue. If he loses, somebody would have to remove him. I think a judge from Fox News brought up that when there is this uncertainty, the head of Congress assumes the power of the president. So, we might have President Pelosi for a few weeks or months until it’s all sorted.”
What does this “peaceful transition” mean exactly? Are people thinking the police will have to physically remove him from his chair in the Oval Office?
Lavie Margolin: “As the Commander in Chief, you’re in control of all branches of the military. If he considers himself still in control and uses military force, how could somebody remove him? The head of the armed forces has already said people like him are willing to give their lives for the norms and freedoms that we value. If it’s clear somebody else has won the election, the armed forces will not stand behind Trump. It’s sort of uncharted territory and pretty scary stuff. Hopefully, we don’t get there. There does seem to be militias that are hopefully unorganized who are already coming out of the woodwork. I think there will be unrest that is in some ways different from the summer.”
If Trump wins a second term, will there be a third TrumpMania?
Lavie Margolin: “It probably depends on the opportunities presented. About a year into publishing the book, somebody asked if I will come out with a revised edition. As opportunities came along like my podcast, I started talking to different publishers about the book. That inspired me to write the second one and I’m glad I did because I learned so much more. We’ll have to see what happens.”
Do wrestlers’ political leanings affect your opinion of them?
Lavie Margolin: “Prior to the administration, it wasn’t something I followed very closely. It just depends on how they’re saying it. Most of the time that would be over Twitter. Before all this, I wasn’t very active in politics and considered myself a moderate that leaned a little more conservative depending on the issues. Now, if wrestlers are reacting to something against the facts of the situation, it makes me less interested in wanting to follow what they have to say.”
You look at stars like Chris Jericho and Undertaker and it seems their popularity has dwindled because of their political leanings becoming public.
Lavie Margolin: “Jericho’s case is fascinating. In some ways, even if he’s not saying he supports Trump, by having Trump’s son on his podcast, it’s fairly clear where he stands probably. In other cases, even though it’s a health issue, it has become very politicized, he said there wasn’t any danger in performing at the biker rally. Now there’s articles saying the rally helped fuel a huge outbreak in the Midwest. That sort of the stuff is very dangerous, but the Undertaker quietly donating to conservative representatives, whatever you feel. It’s an important part of a democracy that people should feel free to support one side or another and we can separate from the most part that we can separate politics from entertainment or sport.”
Last time we talked how you got into wrestling, so this time let’s stay current. Have you been watching wrestling during the pandemic?
Lavie Margolin: “Coming into the pandemic, I was very excited about AEW. I enjoyed the first few shows. Being a dad and having different responsibilities, I had planned to watch more than I do, even though I DVR it. When there was the first empty arena show, I just couldn’t get into it. When I catch AEW now with some fans in the audience, it’s definitely enjoyable. I’m a big Twitter person as you probably see filling up your feed, so when I see a WWE storyline that’s intriguing, I try to check it out. I get the feeling that the Roman Reigns’ feud with his cousin has really good intrigue, so I like to pop in for that.”
Even though I’ve heard universal praise about this Roman Reigns’ thing, it’s still not enough for me to tune in, especially not live. After years of being disappointed by WWE, the ship has sailed for me.
Lavie Margolin: “To sit there for three hours would be a lot. But as the company that’s in the best position to hire the best talent, no matter what we think of how they use the talent, WWE is always something to keep an eye on as the industry driver. The independent scene, as I know you cover very well, is always intriguing. If I’m going to engage actively in pro wrestling, when things start again, certainly going to live shows is most fun, especially smaller shows.”
When would you feel comfortable going back to a pro wrestling event?
Lavie Margolin: “When it’s in New York proper (laughs). I’m not as big of a traveler anymore. If there’s the all clear, I’d probably be comfortable going or if there’s proper social distancing. On the scale of people who don’t want to go out as much, I’m probably less conservative and would engage. My family and I went to a dude ranch this summer and they were careful in terms of regulations, but they had indoor eating and we felt comfortable with it.”
— Lavie Margolin (@Laviemarg) October 26, 2020
Which promotion has handled the pandemic best?
Lavie Margolin: “AEW has done fairly well with it. Even though there seems to be some COVID scares, articles didn’t really concentrate on them. In terms of financially, WWE seems to have done very well, but we’re all watching for the quarterly reports to see how much the video screens have cost them. In terms of keeping the buzz going, MLW has been pretty consistent in coming with creative ways to keep things going, whether that was tapings in Mexico, going through the archives or coming up with a cooking show for La Parka. For ROH, the idea of doing a UWFI-style taping was an excellent idea. ROH needed a break because the brand became quickly tarnished before the pandemic. To come out of it with a show with buzz, ROH might come out of this fairly well in the end.”
Your Twitter followers know your penchant for tracking attendance (@Laviemarg). Where does this fascination come from?
Lavie Margolin: “When I would watch wrestling as a kid and you could see empty seats, my mind went to ‘why are those seats empty?’ Years later, when discovering the Wrestling Observer, I was fascinated by this business information. People would post online what the attendance for shows was year by year. You could see what they made up and what the actual attendance was.
A few years ago, I discovered Wrestlenomics and saw their articles where they did their own research. I was like, I could do this, too? I tried to think what hasn’t been cataloged well. So, the first project I started was on Ring of Honor, comparing its mid-year reports. With the exception of a few shows, I’ve pretty much filled out the whole history of Ring of Honor attendance.”
I’m always entertained by your reports and they’ve influenced my live event coverage.
Lavie Margolin: “Thank you. Another way I’ve been finding information is through newspaper archives on Newspaper.com. I’ve come across different statistics like the best-selling toy and finding LJNs or what was Saturday Night Main Event’s attendance and ratings. One of the things I’ve recently discovered is more information about the Pro Wrestling USA shows in Atlantic City. The narrative is that it was a disaster, but they actually did quite well there in certain time periods and in certain pockets.”
Who are your three favorite wrestlers today?
Lavie Margolin: “Jon Moxley. I just loved his work with The Shield. Goldberg has always been one of my favorites. I haven’t followed much of his return, but he’ll always resonate with me. Jacob Fatu is somebody that really transcends the screen. I enjoy larger-than-life personalities that are also very entertaining in the ring.”
In the book, you credit the wrestling community on Twitter for reigniting your passion. I mostly consider Twitter to be a cesspool. What do you like about it?
Lavie Margolin: “I’m very careful about what’s coming onto my feed. I just follow about 80 people and some of them are just government or pandemic-related now. I follow people like you and your website that share information that’s really insightful and gives a better understanding of business and the social context of what’s going on. I’ve never tried to grow my following because I have seen the darker side of Twitter. I made a joke about New Japan that seemed fairly mundane and it went viral. I was getting hundreds of replies by the hour and it was disgusting, so I deleted it. I can definitely understand how bad any social platform can be, but concentrating on the people who bring value and share ideas together is always enjoyable.”
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