Keith Elliot Greenberg Talks McMahon, Heyman
The legendary wrestling writer shares some fun stories.
Keith Elliot Greenberg is revered by wrestling magazine readers.
The New Yorker spent 22 years writing for various WWE publications, including the autobiographies of Ric Flair, “Classy” Freddie Blassie and “Superstar” Billy Graham. From the dawn of WrestleMania to the infancy of the P.G. Era, Greenberg covered the action inside the ring, as well as the drama behind the scenes in WWE.
Now he has broadened his horizons, examining the entire landscape of professional wrestling in his new book Too Sweet: Inside the Indie Wrestling Revolution. A tremendous introduction into the scene, the 294 pages chronicles the history of independent wrestling, from the outlaw promotions of the territory days to the emergence of ROH, PWG and CHIKARA in the wake of the McMahonopoly to the Bullet Club and now AEW.
For a review, click here. To purchase Too Sweet: Inside the Indie Wrestling Revolution, click here.
The following interview has been edited and broken into three parts. Part 1 is here. Part 2 is here.
I was listening to you on the PWI Podcast and you indicated that back in the day, Vince McMahon was more approachable when you were working there. What kind of relationship did you have or do you still have?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “I’m not going to pretend I had a very close relationship with Vince McMahon, but it was always very respected. I respected the product even if not every storyline and angle turned me on. I was grateful to be included. It’s a closed society and I was admitted to that society and if Vince McMahon didn’t want me there, I would have been excluded. I was grateful for that and he knew that because I expressed that to him on a few occasions.
What impressed me is the fact he was so aware of everything. I remember somebody who worked at ringside telling me about a fan throwing a drink that hit the barricade during a TV taping. This guy ran out with a rag and wiped down the barricade so there wasn’t too much of a glare. After the show, Vince McMahon told him ‘hey, that was really good. You were right on top of it.’
Now I also had a friend who was a photographer for a Japanese publication. One time he brought a girlfriend to a show and they were walking through the back to get to his car. Vince McMahon was in a conversation with people and turned to my friend, then looked at his girlfriend, and then turned back to my friend and with his eyes communicated ‘hey man, don’t bring your girlfriend backstage.’
When I knew him, he didn’t miss too much, if anything.”
There’s a story in the book that you hinted at that I was hoping you could elaborate on: You attended a Studio 54 party hosted by Paul Heyman.
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “Studio 54 wasn’t what it had been during its heyday. Paul Heyman was a young guy working as a manager in Florida and had organized something at Studio 54 that was kind of a wrestling event. Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes had worked in Philadelphia that night and Heyman sent a private plane to shuttle them to New York. There were a lot of wrestling fans there. Bill Apter was there with his camera.
I remember people were talking about Paul Heyman because he was very passionate in his zeal for professional wrestling, but he was an extreme character. Some folks thought he was a crazy fan and that would be his ultimate reputation, one of many who tried to get into the business. Others thought the guy had such a brilliant wrestling mind that you gotta stay close to this guy because he might kick down some doors and you might want to walk through those doors with him.”
Con el fabuloso Cassandro – y mi libro, como no pic.twitter.com/IY0ePSY2gM
— Keith E. Greenberg (@keithegreenbeeg) October 10, 2020
That’s tremendous. I’ve got to ask you about co-authoring one of my favorite books: “Superstar” Billy Graham: Tangled Ropes.
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “It’s one of my favorites, too. That was a great experience. Superstar Billy Graham had requested that I co-write his book, which I consider quite a privilege. He wanted to disclose all this information to me. We spent a lot of time together. We also spent time with his sister and wife and the family of the girl who donated her organs to Superstar Billy Graham when he had his transplant. It was really intimate.
He was very open about the fact that other people might say wrestling is a work, but when he lost that championship, he fell into a deep depression, blew his money and kind of hit rock bottom. I remember when he came back with this kung-fu gimmick and the shaved head and he was skinnier and there was a rumor that the real Superstar Billy Graham was dead. He admitted that he truly was a shell of his former self. He didn’t sugarcoat any of that.
Vince McMahon, when I interviewed him for the book, he said had his father not been in charge, Superstar Billy Graham would have been Hulk Hogan six years earlier.”
That’s incredible. It’s a shame he doesn’t get talked about by my generation much. I guess it’s because WWE doesn’t bring him in for anything.
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “You know, when I was writing those autobiographies for Simon & Schuster, the editor Margaret Clark became quite an expert on professional wrestling because she was editing so many books. One of her observations was like New Testament and Old Testament. The Old Testament was everything pre-Hulk Hogan and that was reflected in book sales. Superstar Billy Graham’s book didn’t sell as well because it was before the Hulk Hogan era, even though if it wasn’t for Superstar Billy Graham, by Hulk Hogan’s own admission, there wouldn’t be a Hulk Hogan.”
Let’s talk about this never released Iron Sheik book. What happened and is there any way we can ever get it?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “You’re not going to see it. I’m asked this in every interview and I should be because I mentioned it in the book. You know, the only way people are going to see that book is if in 20 years or so, Stephanie McMahon’s daughter when she’s in charge of WWE, unearths the manuscript and says ‘I think we can release it now without it hurting our brand.’
Do you have the manuscript?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “I have it, but I’m not going to share it. WWE owns it. I wrote it twice, in fact. I wrote it once before he had kicked his drug habit. So, there wasn’t a real resolution at the end. Then, I rewrote it after he had kicked his drug habit. I was paid twice for the book and it was never published.”
(Laughs) What about Iron Sheik? Was he upset that it didn’t get published?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “Yes, he was upset. He was paid twice, too. The first time he literally cried.”
Have you seen the documentary on him?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “I’m in it.”
Does that cover what the book covered?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “To a very large extent, it does. Of course, there’s a difference between a documentary and a book. In a book, you can dive deeper and explain things. Sometimes, you have to simplify things in a documentary.”
I know you’re currently working on a sequel about pro wrestling during COVID-19. Can you give us a teaser?
Keith Elliot Greenberg: “I’m keeping a close eye on the Thunderdome and cinematic matches. The fact that we even had a WrestleMania this year is shocking. Vince McMahon plowed ahead and that WrestleMania looked very different than what we see now with the Thunderdome. I’m also keeping track of the #SpeakingOut movement, all those furloughs and layoffs in WWE where the talent went to other places. There’s AEW creating this mood with wrestlers at ringside before allowing a limited number of fans in.
New Japan, while on the verge of really infiltrating the U.S., staging empty arena matches without having the visibility of before. Now they’re slowly bringing fans back into the building in very limited capacity. Everybody wearing a mask and being instructed not to scream so nothing carries in the air. I’m also acknowledging that while this is going on, Boris Johnson and the president of the United States and the Canadian Prime Minister’s wife all had the coronavirus. There’s an election going on in the U.S. Wrestling is escapism, but in this era, the real world seeps its way in.”
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