Tommy Dreamer Talks Health, NWA, HOH 39
A childhood dream could come true as he challenges for the NWA World Heavyweight Title.
Never focused on winning titles, Tommy Dreamer admits that there is one gold belt he’d love to wrap around his waist.
On Saturday at House of Hardcore 39, he’ll have the chance as he challenges Nick Aldis for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. The stakes are higher than ever before because deteriorating health and Father Time are forcing the House of Hardcore owner to evaluate how much longer he plans to compete in the ring, his home away from home for three decades.
“I’m 47, I’d love to do 30 years of wrestling and call it a career, which would be two more years,” Dreamer told The Wrestling Estate. “Then I know I’d love to retire at 50. But I will always go on the record and say the moment I retire, I’m retiring and I’m never going to wrestle again. Unlike a lot of people, as you know, I always stick to stipulations, and that’s my own stipulation.”
In other championship news, HOH 39 will continue the Twitch TV Title tournament at the 2300 Arena in Philadelphia on March 24. The remaining participants will battle it out with the semi-finals and finals taking place in New Orleans as part of WrestleCon.
If you can’t make it to the 2300 Arena, House of Hardcore 38 will be available on Twitch starting at 8 p.m. EST. House of Hardcore’s weekly show airs on Twitch every Wednesday at 9 p.m. EST, right after NXT.
For tickets and more information on HOH 39, visit www.houseofhardcore.net.
Watch HOH on Twitch at go.twitch.tv/houseofhardcore.
Dreamer spoke with The Wrestling Estate last week regarding changes to the tournament, his health and the Sami Callihan controversy.
I thought the last House of Hardcore event in Philly was top to bottom the best show you guys ever had. Would you agree?
Tommy Dreamer: “I don’t know how, but we keep on topping ourselves. I mean I do, because of the men and women on my team. Yeah, man, everybody stepped up. It was a really cool wrestling show, which as you know, is what I’m all about. No politics, no B.S., just wrestling. There were some matches like Austin Aries and Matt Riddle was insane; Brian Cage and Sami Callihan was great. We’re going to keep on moving along. Philly has always been a magical place and we’re going to keep that magic happening.”
There is so much I want to discuss about this next show, but most importantly, how is your back?
Dreamer: “Ah, my back hasn’t been good. It sucks. From years of wrestling in the original ECW, I had broken my neck. I didn’t know and then I had broken my back because my body healed wrong. A lot of people know the story, but I’ve never had a surgery and I’ve never had it fixed. I only feel pain when I’m flying, but lately, I’ve been feeling a lot of pain. I don’t know if it’s my hip, my back, my neck. At that last show, I hit the table with Joey Mercury and that table did not budge. I hit it with my hip and I don’t know if that aggravated it. You know, they always say the hips are the first to go on wrestlers, then the knees.
So I’m just hanging in there, and today has been a good day where I just walk like I’m Terry Funk. I’ve been in excruciating pain for a while now. I know my time isn’t as long as I want it to be because I know I have some health issues physically. I’m just going to keep trying my hardest. My schedule has been pretty brutal doing indies and House of Hardcore. Right now, I can’t take some time off, but I’m actually going to go to the doctor tomorrow and get an MRI to see what’s going on inside.”
When you say you’ve never had surgery, was that a personal choice or just not recommended?
Dreamer: “Um (laughs), a little bit of both. Back when I broke my neck in the original ECW, I didn’t know and then I was wrestling Lance Storm and broke my back. Your body will naturally heal itself but mine healed wrong. I had three herniated discs. My doctor tells me I have a slipped disc, which means it pops out every once in a while, which causes, you know, a lot of pain. When I went for the surgery, I was 28 and they were going to do what us wrestlers call a “zipper.” They go straight up through the back of the spine. He said I would be out a year and there was no guarantee I’d be able to wrestle again. That wasn’t something in the cards in my head, so I was hurting for a long time.
My trainer, WWE Hall of Famer Johnny Rodz, told me a story once about Tony Garea dropping him on a bodyslam and he went head first into the mat. He lost all feeling like a complete quadriplegic. He laid there and his trainer told him when something like that happens, you need to take another big bump. So he had Tony Garea slam him really, really hard.
So for me, I had Lance Storm bodyslam me on the concrete. I don’t recommend anyone doing this. I was also able to keep wrestling. I never missed a show. I’ve always had nagging back pain, but I tell people my mom is actually looking at some back surgery. She has never taken a bump, never followed her dreams. It’s going to happen to everybody. So I’m okay if I walk with a limp or need major surgery because I’ve lived my dream and traveled the world so the end result is totally worth it.”
Well, at 28 years old, it’s not like you were going to risk your career ending with surgery.
Dreamer: “Then, I had nothing else to do except for listening to what my crazy trainer told me once. I recently had a match against Sam Shaw, he was from TNA, and my back kind of goes into spasms now after I wrestle. I start getting all bent over and everything. After that, IU had to fly the next morning to Vegas and I did something with Eli Drake and Disco Inferno of all people. It’s my left side that’s really, really bad. So I took a really hard bump on that side and was able to fly home without problem. Today I was able to do cardio, I was able to go to the gym. I have pain and it’s just weird. If anyone suffers from back pain, I use Lo-Bak TRAX. I use everything under the sun that helps it. I’m just going to keep on going until I can’t go no more.”
When you’re limping backstage, do other wrestlers ask you what’s going on or is it just accepted as part of pro wrestling?
Dreamer: “It’s accepted in wrestling. I’m sure a bunch of football players, you look at the Eagles after they just won, I’m sure a lot of those guys in the back, they’re a little beat up. But once you go out there and play, it’s a lot different. It’s funny, I could barely lace my boots in the back. Once my music hit, adrenaline kicks in – adrenaline is the greatest drug of all time – and I say it on the mic all the time. When I go through that curtain, I’m 27 years old again with a full set of hair and 20 pounds lighter. I’m Tommy Dreamer again. I wish it could last forever, but it doesn’t. When I come to the back, I quickly take off my boots and I start hunching over. It’s like the reverse evolution of man where you start standing up right and start going back down.”
What does Beulah say about all this?
Dreamer: “She’s used to it. She has been with me for a long, long time. A key part in the Tommy Dreamer/Beulah relationship is when my back was so bad and I could not walk. I had to use the restroom and I couldn’t get out of bed, so I basically went number two in a waste paper basket. She had to clean me up, and we were just dating. Right then and there I said there’s someone who really, really cares for me, because I don’t know if I could do that for somebody.”
That’s love.
Dreamer: “She wouldn’t do it for me now, though. (laughs)”
(laughs) Well, that’s marriage. That’s different than love.
Dreamer: “Yeah.”
If the time really does come soon for you to hang up the tights, would you be okay with just running the company?
Dreamer: “I’ll betcha that’s what I want to do, but financially, I’m not there yet with House of Hardcore. Last year I did 187 shows, which is awesome as well as horrible. I still do it because I have twin daughters. Braces cost friggin $10,000 for two kids. I’m a parent, I’m a regular person. I have bills, too. I want to put my kids through college. You never know what can happen in life, so that’s why I keep on plugging away.”
At this point in your career, what does it mean for you to be challenging for the NWA World Championship?
Dreamer: “It’s amazing. I am a very competitive person. I strive for perfection all the time. I joke with Billy Corgan because he purchased a company that runs no shows and has a title, and I run a company that does run shows, but has no title. When you held that title back in the day, it meant you were the best. Two of the most influential people in my life held that title and I grew up watching that title. If it were not for ‘The American Dream’ Dusty Rhodes, I would not be a professional wrestler because he made me believe. I used to watch him talk every single week about that title. It meant you were going to every single wrestling promotion to defend that title.
The other was Terry Funk, and when he held it, he held it for a long time and that’s because he was the best. I still strive to be the best. I was never a title guy, but that is something I would love to hang on my mantle or just to say, hey, I made it. I opened the door for Billy, which was a big risk, and then bringing it back to Philadelphia which was where it had its last hurrah. Now actually having it mean something, and through social media, it proved that wrestling fans actually care about it. If it’s done right, they’ll continue to watch.”
Why was it a big risk to let Billy in?
Dreamer: “You didn’t know where he was going to go with it. I know his vision, I know where he wants to go with it. It’s not like they run shows or is an organization that is competing or has television. You also don’t know if people are going to be like, hey man, that technically doesn’t exist anymore. It’s funny, people talk about ECW and it was 20 years ago. Thanks to the WWE Network, they remember that stuff. But the thriving of the NWA was in the 1980s. You don’t know if fans remember and with Shane Douglas throwing the title down, it’s different.”
Speaking of titles, Austin Aries will no longer be participating in the Twitch TV Title tournament, right?
Dreamer: “Correct. It’s hard to basically tell your friend I’d rather you work for me when you have the opportunity to make more money somewhere else. That’s the hard part, that’s the crappy part I can’t stand, but I had to do it. Kevin Kross advances to WrestleMania weekend. Actually when looking at it, I think I like it a lot better because now I have a three way to crown the first champion. The winner of the semi-final matches will go on to face Kross in the finals. I got to design the title. I’ve seen the title and it’s being delivered next week. It’s awesome if you’re a throwback wrestling fan. For me, designing my own title was one of the coolest things I’ve gotten to do.”
Will Kross still be wrestling in Philly this Saturday?
Dreamer: “He’ll still be there and he’ll still be wrestling. We’re also going to do a three way for men who lost and they’ll get a second shot to get back into the tournament.”
How about Rich Swann? He’s listed on the website as scheduled to appear, but rumors are circulating that he’s finished with wrestling. Can you confirm that he’ll still be there?
Dreamer: “I don’t know. I know that he’s going through some personal issues. Rich Swann was arrested and then found 100% innocent. You can have me arrested and say I threatened you on this phone call, and then you’d have to prove it. I did my research and I did it with WWE. The witness changed their story to him being 100% innocent. Sadly, he was then let go.
I get WWE’s point because right now they can’t deal with anything negative because what they’re trying to do. For him, I think it was a case of social media. When I announced him for House of Hardcore, every single person was very, very happy because he’s super-duper talented.
I have spoken to him and he’s not in a good place right now. He said he needs to get his head straight. With the whole mental awareness and/or depression with losing your dream job, he just needs to realize that his career isn’t over and it’s just begun. But you need to get your head right especially if you’re going to be in this business. Mental health and mental depression is a big, big issue, and rightfully so. I know he’s going through a lot, and I’m there to support him in any way possible.”
Absolutely, I think it would be good for him to see a bunch of people happy to see him. Let me ask you about the controversy surrounding Sami Callihan. Is this just a case of accidents happen or is this something different?
Dreamer: “It’s a case of two things. One is social media. Everybody sees it and they want to comment and know about it. They want to base their own opinion on it without knowing the facts. It’s the society we live in. There are some people who will chime in that it was an accident or other people chime in it was reckless. Everyone has an opinion.
For me, I would be a hypocrite. At ECW One Night Stand, Bully Ray hit me so hard with a Singapore cane that I went deaf and the doctor said I may lose my ear. In the back, he asked if I was alright, and I said yeah, man, you messed up my ear, but I’ll get my hearing back. Back in the day, if somebody hurt somebody, we’d go to the hospital with them or make sure we’re contacting them.
I don’t think Sami meant to do it. It happened, but when everybody else jumps on it, I think Sami would be a fool not to jump on it. Here’s how the world is. Someone can say something on social media and then they can backtrack. In pro wrestling, guys would say stuff and then they’d be confronted in the locker room, and then, hey, you fight. I do it the same way. If people want to start talking smack about me, cool. You want to do it online? That’s one thing because you’re going to make it public. Then let’s settle it like men or just go fight.
That’s Sami Callihan’s battle to fight. I don’t want to say everybody should mind their own business because they can’t. That’s the world we live in. Everybody likes to quickly put out there about what’s the current topic and then when you find out the facts, you’re like, ooh. That’s why I always lean back when I see stuff like that on social media because everybody wants to hit their opinion without knowing all the facts, and that’s the worst you thing you can do.”
I respect that Sami has embraced this backlash. It’s raised his aura and reputation. In pro wrestling today, there aren’t many guys you’re genuinely afraid of. He’s a throwback to the old days where characters took pride in hurting somebody.
Dreamer: “You said fear. I remember I grew up in fear of The Sheik. I grew up in fear of Kevin Sullivan. Even when I first met him, I was afraid of Sabu. The last guy I feel that fear of is New Jack.
You have to understand that a lot of people chime in because they want to feel important. They want to express their opinion because they have podcasts or an audience. As Eric Bischoff said, controversy creates cash. I like Vince Russo and got a long with him great. But some of the things he says on his Twitter, I’m like, is he insane? I don’t say that and if I do, I will text him.
Everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon about Sami. He did what he did. He has no remorse. If he does, you should ask Sami. If not, deal with it.”
On the same topic of Impact Wrestling, Brian Cage debuted for the company a few weeks ago. Do you think he has a lot of momentum riding in the Twitch tournament?
Dreamer: “Oh, absolutely. He’s on a tear. He’s taking on Willie Mack and I didn’t realize this, but Willie Mack is undefeated in House of Hardcore, and he’s actually defeated Cage before. I enjoy the fact that men and women are working other places and I’m able to spotlight them. I saw what they did in December at House of Hardcore in Wisconsin, and I’m sure they’ll tear it up in Philly.
Willie Mack is one of the most gifted athletes I’ve ever seen. Another guy that totally took me by surprise is Dan Maff. Dan has been around a long, long time and he’s really stepped up his game. So has Alex Reynolds. And Kenny, Kenny is very, very entertaining. He’s another person who could be a top, top heel in a wrestling company.”
Is finding these talents and giving them a platform the best part of being a promoter?
Dreamer: “It’s what I’ve been doing since ECW. It has nothing to do with being a promoter. We had tryouts in ECW where people had to recommend you to be there. I saw this red-headed girl with no boobs and a tattoo on her arm and she could do a moonsault. That girl came to be Lita. Same with Jazz. Hell, I helped put the Dudleyz together. I found Bubba on an indie show and found D-Von because we were trained by the same guy. I love giving back to this business. I wrestle everywhere. I just did something with Lucha Underground, Impact and Ring of Honor. I love it.”
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